[Eldar] Technology: Crafts of War

[Addinarr]

Trans-warp tech - Nice idea to have teleporting weaponry but why use all that power to move an explosive inside something?  why not just use the space for the explosive yield changed into further energy production for a warp rift generator that would just tear the target apart by sucking bits of it into the warp?  If the Trans-warp weaponry only works againt targets without Void Shields having a 'warp bomb' is a simpler and far more devastating solution.  Sorry thats so negative but most military applicaitons of stuff try to keep it simple for mass production and ease of use.

For a large number of reasons surprisingly.

A trans-warp torpedo is actually a fairly simple design [compared to Void torpedoes, which is actually what you're suggesting]. A TW-torpedo's warp generator is actually fairly small, as it only requires a very short jump to travel through a target's armor. This leaves more room for the actual warhead package, leaving the torpedo nearly as effective in terms of damage and range as the normal Eldar counterpart.

The reason for not a large scale disruption or void torpedo, which would essentially depend on the damage created by unleashed warp rifts [or in the case of old-school Void torpedoes, artificial singularities....meaning mini-black holes] are as follows:

A: Significantly increased maintenance and construction.
B: Extremely hazardous payloads in the event of a weapon malfunction.
C: Increased unpredictability in the range of the damage radius [meaning of course, friendly ships can be caught in the backlash]
D: Large probability of not harming the target vessel in the case of a full envelopment [if you want a weapon that can toss an entire ship into the warp, you have to realize that the ship could just come back. They do tend to have warp engines of their own after all]
E: Increased probability of Daemonic infestation....a natural hazard in any circumstance where large warp rifts are opened, particularly if there are more than one such rifts.
F: In the case of combating an actual Daemonic entity, such weapons would be more of a temporary setback at best and an unexpected boon to the enemy at worst.

As it is, a trans-warp torpedo is not only simple and effective, but it is also based on proven, more or less controllable, technologies that already exist. You are not entirely incorrect about the damage potential of a Void torpedo, but there are severe risks that follow weapons of such scale.

It is, of course, not impossible to create naval-grade D-cannon batteries like I believe the older Wraithships used to have [if memory serves correctly], but such weapons have always been notoriously short-ranged, inaccurate, and unpredictable.

[Zizada]

Fair enough but to counter a few things...

A - I can't really counter anthing on this.  Warp weaponry is probably time consuming to create, if nothing else just for the safety factors involved.
B - I don't buy this one.  A race that routinely uses warp weaponry in all sizes (small arms to naval grade) would have safety measures installed so that in the event of payload malfunction it would harmlessly collapse the warp field rendering it inert or something like that.
C - Again, The Eldar have been using warp-based technology for aeons, the thought that they could not create a specific sized warp rift, or indeed taylor every facet of its short life is a bit difficult to grap.  I mean humans have had nuclear weapons for less than 100 years and already we can drop a bomb with a specified damage radius.
D - I'm not to sure about this one.  It could well be that a ship would not be harmed by full envelopment and would be capable of returning to real space but the likelyhood is slim.  Just think of the stress a superstructure would under go as some of the vessel (without an active Geller field) changed speed and even direction as it entered warp space.
E - This one is too varied to even think of a legitimate defence for my ramblings.  I can only say that yes, there would be an increased chance of infestation but, not all demonic entities are waiting for a ship to face Eldar vessels in the hope that one will use a 'void' torpedo so it can take over.  That said, 'void' weapons are probably not first choice when confronting Chaos vessels or in warp storm areas.
F - Can't really say much about this one.  Haven't thought about what warp weapons do to manifested entities.  But d-cannons and wraith guns do hurt and even banish/kill manifested demons.  

Thinking about it all I don't think that the Eldar as a whole would use this technology, a single craftworld might but its too restrictive compared to existing weaponry that, as a race, they use.  Naval grade wise they have their own (and very evil) torpedoes that have targeter scrambling systems (thus damn-near impossble to track and shoot down), they have advanced targetting and tracking systems so they hardly ever miss and like all other ordanance they ignore voidshields.  That by itself makes the standard torpedoes superior to transwarp ones.

I like the idea as it fantasic and does fit with the whole idea of Eldar super-tech but it doesn't make sense for them to use a system that is not as all-purpose as the exsting stuff they have.

[Addinarr]

B: You are, of course, free not to believe anything I theorize [inasmuch as can be theorized in an entirely fictional universe in the first place of course], but you should recall that despite centuries of use, gunpowder, gasoline, and other volatile materials commonly in use in modern day vehicles can and will detonate if shot, causing remarkably messy results, despite the best designed containment measures. You can make the case the Warp technology isn't nearly as volatile as our modern day weapons....but again, that would be pure speculation. My theory would at least explain why it's not widely used in the first place....It's remarkably hazardous!
C: Not quite. We have nuclear weapons with variable yields and guess at it's projected damage radius, but no, we don't have exact figures even if you're only talking about the actual area of complete annihilation. The rest depends on a variety of geological factors, such as the weather, the terrain, the material it is detonated against, etc. The actual point at which is detonated will, of course, be utterly destroyed, but after that, the results will vary. Granted, most nuclear detonations are pretty devastating on the ground, but are next to pointless in space.
D: Well, this is speculation once again, but I'm going to imagine that dumping a ship capable of Warp travel into the Warp unexpectedly will have little lasting effects considering that's what they're designed for in the first place. However, dumping one without Void Shields could possibly have significantly more effective results assuming they're swarmed by daemons soon after. Still, there's a fair chance the ship will remain intact, although the crew would likely be stunned or injured from the unexpected turbulence
E: Oh no, don't make the mistake of thinking that daemons are actively seeking out the Eldar in order to exit the Warp [otherwise, we'd hear about them doing so every now and then when we fire off a wraithcannon or a d-cannon, although this does not rule out the possibility]. On the other hand, you should realize that there are literally too many daemons to count, they would probably be attracted by conflict, and any warp rift large enough to threaten a kilometers long naval vessel would probably be....rather noticable.  Considerably more so than the ground-based weapon counterparts. After that, you'd have to guess how long such a void would remain open, and likely, the longer it takes, the more damage it can cause as it draws in material into it's gravitational [sorta] grasp. Personally, I'd be concerned with any void that remained open for more than a few seconds, the probability of which likely increases if there are multiple torpedo hits.
F: Oh, granted, they CAN be harmed by doing so, but seeing as they originated from the Warp, they are likely more resistant to being drawn into it as easily as other creatures if they possess significant enough daemonic powers....and if they were really a cause for concern to the Eldar in the first place, then that is pretty likely.

Oh, it is not supposed to be all-purpose. Nor should it be seeing as they do prefer specializations. It is, specifically, an armor-penetration warhead, designed to be employed against the most hardened targets. Hardly something to go shooting off at, say, mere frigates. Battleships on the other hand are much favorable and efficient targets as prey.

[Zizada]

All of the other reasons aside, why would they use a trans-wap weapon?  The existing torpedo they use is superior as they ignore the shielding of any ship and with various fusion/sonic charges they existing warheads do significant damage regardless even against hardened targets. 

Like I said, the idea is good but when put against existing weaponry it doesn't seem to match up why the Eldar would bother with a more complex weapon system.

[Addinarr]

Mostly? Anti-Necron weapons research.

It would be preferable not to have to worry about having to punch through several layers of armor over and over again because it repair itself.

In any case...why do people insist on making bigger and badder bullets when a puny 9 mm can kill a guy? To raise the probability of a killing shot and immediate end to the threat.

It's a better, deadlier, torpedo designed to take down the most protected ships in the galaxy. The increased lethality of the weapon would mean a swift and efficient way to beat them.

Other torpedoes can breach armor of course, but this one practically ensures it.

[Kage2020]

Mostly? Anti-Necron weapons research.
 

To be honest, Addinarr has a very good point.

Also, to a limited extent, Eldar armour is going to have the same degree of self-healing (just not as rapid).

Kage

[Studio Colrouphobia]

Interesting ideas tossed around in here.
I must also say, to avoid the one-liner :p , I am a Vaul fan-boy... Technology and tcrafted objects... yum-yum.

I like the ideas about Anti-Necron weapons research.
That path doesn't strike me as THAT much followed within 40k...

[Kage2020]

Indeed.  I'm also firmly of the opinion that the Eldar's current technology is actually a bastardisation of the philosophies of the Necrontry and the Old Ones.  On the one hand you have mundane science and technology, while on the other you have psychic engineering -- thus technomancy.  Over tens of thousands of years, or even hundreds of thousands of years, these have developed to become nigh on inseparable in the consciousness of the Eldar.  And this is even before you get to their approach to "technology" and nature.

Kage

[Addinarr]

You'll be happy to know that I'm warming up to the idea.

While we're on the subject...The Eldar currently have no means to self-repair vehicles and armor, so I've thought up a more or less plausible version.

As you know, the majority of Eldar technology is constructed out of Wraithbone, an annoying ubiquitous yet useful crystalline material. It is pseudo-organic, but it incapable of really growing without a Bonesinger's manipulation, making self-repair somewhat impractical.

I've solved this by borrowing the concept of Wraithspiders and merging the concept with blood platelets and nanomachines. The resulting product is one that I call "wraith-gel" [help me think of a less stupid name], a gel that is made up of nanite liquid crystals. These machines are similar to nanomachines but lack the ability to replicate themselves.

These are stored in multiple gelpacks that are fitted underneath a standard wraithbone plate. In the event that the armor is breached, the gel-packs will rupture, flooding the wound with the nanites. The nanites seek out the wound and then explode [not in the usual explody-fire-death kinda way], sending replacement fast-hardening wraithbone everywhere on a microscopic scale. When this is done en-masse, the gels will have effectively sealed off any puncture in the armor.

This is, of course, little use for vehicles, since whatever has punched through has probably already done enough damage. However, the gel-armor will be more useful for infantry and spacecraft, binding wounds and stopping bloodloss for the former and preventing the latter from leaking all its atmosphere and causing violent decompressions in the vacuum of space.

The gel armor is not nearly as effective as Necron abilities as they are incapable of actually regenerating destroyed parts. It will, however, mitigate the damage done.

You'll probably ask now, if you can have gel armor under the wraithbone plate, why not just replace the gel for additional conventional armor? Well, you should realize that while the replacement material created by the gel is not as strong as the original, the entire gel system is significantly lighter in weight and more flexible than in the equivalent amount of armor. The system also assumes that at some point, actual armor is going to be redundant since there will be many ways to breach it. While preventing the damage is preferable, the gel-pack system is designed under the assumption  that sometimes it is just not possible.

[Kage2020]

I'm presuming that is the idea about the blurring of technology and philosophies and approaches to technology, Addinarr?

This is not a one line post. (CELS: And this is not me rolling my eyes.  ) And after the post in another thread that consisted solely of "Sure"?  I think that I have a bit of latitude.  CELS: It was just a tongue-in-cheek remark, Kage.

Kage

[Addinarr]

Yeah. When you get down to it, the Warp is a really unreliable source of power alone.

That and if we truly believe the Eldar are not completely idiotic, it seems safe to say that they will have learned to incorporate such an old enemy's strengths to use against them. They've had how many years to do it?

[Kage2020]

Indeedy.  Anyway, I look forward to seeing some of your other ideas about Eldar technology, most especially if it happens to encompass something other than military technology.  (And, therefore, probably another thread... )

Kage

[Addinarr]

Well, memory-encoding gems come to mind....but I doubt you'd like them.

Too much on the magical side. :p

[Kage2020]

Erm, perhaps not.  The "magical" approach mostly comes from people just pulling ideas out of their bottom rather than creating an idea and considering the implications of the technology.  So I'm all ears.

Kage