[Eldar]Soul Rippers: new aspect warrior shrine

[CELS]

So, in an attempt to keep our eyes on the ball... perhaps someone would like to either respond to the suggestions I offered in my last two posts in an attempt to further define the Aspects we're looking to create? It seems we're getting a bit sidetracked with defining what the Harlequins are doing. I'm not saying it's irrelevant, I'm just saying that there are other matters in this thread I was hoping people would be discussing.

Specifically, do we agree that it would be interesting to create two different Aspects, broadly defined as daemon-hunters and terror troops respectively? If we could agree on that much, we could proceed with defining their combat doctrines, equipment, appearance, etc.

Oh, and as for how the blades of Vaul look - we have no idea. They are mentioned in Eldar mythology, and for all we know they word "blade" could represent anything from titans to starships. However, it seems appropriate that an Eldar unit wielding actual swords would draw inspiration from that part of Eldar mythology, similar to how the Shining Spears aspect warriors wielding high-tech laser lances have named themselves after a certain spear in Eldar mythology, which may also represent anything.

[Addinarr]

Alright alright, sorry.

I think i should mention that you shouldn't have a C'Tan hunting aspect, seeing as there are only 4 left and actually seeing one in one's lifetime is rather improbable. Same with Greater Daemons to a lesser extent.

Interestingly enough, I had considered the Blades of Vaul once before and had incorporated it into my fluff. The Blades of Vaul aren't specifically swords per-say [in my perspective] but a series of polymorphic weapons which would shape shift according the the user's whim, much like how the Wailing Doom was supposed to do so for the Avatar of Khaine. Each blade was actually sentient, imbued with an echo of all who had wielded it since they were forged, forming its own individual consciousness and personality.

I personally would veer away from using them for an Aspect though, since there's only 100 of them [well, 99 plus the false blade], they are probably reserved for the greatest of heroes and are scattered around the galaxy.

[CELS]

I wasn't actually suggesting that they would be wielding the blades of Vaul. I was suggesting that they would be wielding any kind of powerful blades, and that this aspect would represent the hundred Eldar that fought for Khaine with the blades of Vaul (aka Blade-Wraiths), just like each of the other aspects represent a part of Eldar mythology that matches their combat doctrine. I'm not suggesting that the aspect would actually be armed with the blades of Vaul. Especially since "blade" might be a metaphor for anything, as mentioned above.

I guess you have a point in that fighting C'tan is a rare occurence, but fighting daemons isn't necessarily all that rare for Eldar. And the original hundred Eldar wielding the Blade-Wraiths were actually fighting the Necrons before they fought the Nightbringer. But really, one of the few reasons I can think of for melee taking place with swords and spears on the battlefields of Warhammer 40,000 is that there are actually certain enemies that are all but impervious to ranged weapons. Like when the daemon Cherubael comes under fire from a bolt pistol and simply plucks the projectile from the air and tosses it away. Against enemies like that, you need a good old sword. Well, preferably a force sword, not a plain steel sword. 

Hmmn, yes, I'm definitely liking this idea of "giant killers", Eldar aspect warriors armed with powerful swords to take out greater daemons and other powerful entities who are less vulnerable against ranged fire and conventional weapons. Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but it seems the discussion of the Soul Rippers has all but ended. I guess I could start a separate thread to discuss the swordsmen aspect, if that's preferable.

[Kage2020]

So, in an attempt to keep our eyes on the ball...

Sometimes when you keep your eye on the ball, you miss the game.   But fair enough.

Specifically, do we agree that it would be interesting to create two different Aspects, broadly defined as daemon-hunters and terror troops respectively?

I'm afraid that this thread has got me all wargame-y, so I'm caught up in the images.  Thus, for example, regardless of what particular focus you're going at, I've got Tony Jaa imagery running through my head, perhaps mixed with Bloodrayne-esque swords.

Yes, I'm as deep as a puddle at the moment.

Erm, but seriously... Maybe I should just develop that particularly thing on my own, perhaps as a variation of Howling Banshees.  Maybe with fewer double-takes and elephants.

If we could agree on that much, we could proceed with defining their combat doctrines, equipment, appearance, etc.

My wargame-fu is weak, so I doubt that I could do anything with the former... but the latter?  Yeah, I'm jiggy with that.  I just doubt that it would work well on the tabletop!

They are mentioned in Eldar mythology, and for all we know they word "blade" could represent anything from titans to starships.

We do have some hints - and I have a hazy recollection of a description - in Bill King's Farseer.  I left that book in Blighty, though, so I don't have descriptions to hand.  (Hmmn... I really should have typed up the interesting quotes from the BL books.  It wouldn't have taken too long, even from the 50+ that I had back there, but I would have all this information to hand. )

Kage

Edit: This sounds a bit confrontational, but it's not meant that way.  Long day at the office, as it were, and then moving computers and my entire IT infrastructure (which is not insubstantial) from one room to another, drilling and patching of holes in the walls, etc., etc.

[Addinarr]

oh. Fair enough.

Certainly, some Craftworlds would see more action against daemons than others, Ulthwe for example.
It's still a fairly rare ocurrence to face Greater Daemons though. The lesser forms...sure. The point I'm trying to make is try not to make them too powerful.

[Studio Colrouphobia]

I wasn't particularily asking for how the blades of Vaul looks because any ol' aspectwarrior would weild them, but rather that IF some aspect had this in the background, and IF they would weild a representation of it, it might be good to know (for us unsuspecting Illustrators around) what it might look like...

Would be silly to illustrate something looking like a gladius if it's supposed to lok like a scimitar (for example).... 

[CELS]

Ah, indeed. Well, first we need to make sure that everyone is onboard with the concept that I'm suggesting. At the moment, I'm not sure this is the case, as I can't tell if people are agreeing with me, disagreeing with me or none of the above.

In my mind, I'm inclined to go with the look of Elvish swords from Lord of the Rings. Two-handed sabers, rather than double-edge battle-swords. But bigger, and more high-tech, with gems and the slightly organic look of wraith-bone. (Most Eldar blades, spears and halberds seem to be single-edged with a curve)

As for them being too powerful, Addinarr - that's why I saw them as being slightly kamikaze, as they'd have the weapons needed to take out powerful enemies, but not the armour to resist any counter-attack. I agree with you, they should definitely not be too powerful, which they would be if they also had holo-suits or some other armour that made them the equivalents of Grey Knights, in wargame terms. But putting our wargame goggles aside, I'm sure they would be very powerful indeed, as the technology of the ancient Eldar should give them extremely durable yet agile armour.

[Malika]

Sorry for the late reply...I was out last night watching weird musicians doing things with microphones that even Prince would not sing about! 

I'm really liking the idea of creating two Aspects shrines. One with the "soul ripper" and some shooting weapon which is very effective against infantry. A terror troop unit could be very cool, perhaps some weaponry which can deal with mass light infantry? The Exarch with the soul sucking (and destroying) device and perhaps a pistol or other funky weapon would most definitely be cool!

I don't.  For people developing this concept I would prefer that they stuck to the premise that the myths are just that: myths.  They might contain a kernel of truth, but they are not truth in and of themselves.  (I'm also partially refusing to believe that, despite what GW might claim, the entire Eldar race believes nothing beyond the simplistic statements of mythology as truth.)

It could be a "chosen collective trauma" that the Eldar have experienced, so the event itself might have been totally differently or even non-existent. However it has been thrown into history and is now considered real. There are many examples of this concept, for example the event known as the "Fall of Kosovo/Serbia" in medieval times. These were actually two separate events, one being the Serbians being beaten by the Turks and the other one of that area actually being conquered by the Turks. However Serbian culture has deemed these two separate event as the same and turned it into a single event that happened at a single date. Now I know that the Eldar situation would be somewhat different, but it could be very possible that culturally speaking they have accepted certain myths as absolute truth which in itself could have political/technological/military/cultural consequences.

As for the daemon-hunting aspect's weapon. The two-handed single bladed sword could be fitting, however I'm still into the idea of a bigger weapon, as in something pole based, or perhaps something along the lines of Darth Maul's light sabre, If I remember correctly the Howling Banshees' Exarch carries a weapon like that too!

EDIT: returning to the subject of the daemon-hunting aspect...now that I'm reading some of the posts more carefully I'm getting this weird fantasy vibe. Probably because of the whole "giant killers". Warriors who go out there to kill the biggest and nastiest creatures in the universe...very Beowulf!

But putting our wargame goggles aside, I'm sure they would be very powerful indeed, as the technology of the ancient Eldar should give them extremely durable yet agile armour.

If they would be there to fight the big stuff I doubt their armour would be that good. I mean these Eldar know that their armour wouldn't be strong enough to protect them from big daemons, monsters and whatever else. So why waste resources, energy, etc on something that would be smashed into bits anyways? Their defence is their speed, so their armour might be just good enough to protect themselves from minor attacks such as light arms, falling on the ground and stuff like that while the actual defence lies in dodging the attacks and killing the enemy as quickly as possible. So these troops would have to do kill their target quickly before being killed themselves, not only speaking with our fluff goggles on, but also from a wargame point of view; they would need to kill their target quickly and dodge it's attacks before it has the chance to launch more attacks at them which they will not be able to block or dodge.