If you could change one thing about the project...

[Malika]

Indeed.  This is what I refer to when saying that we are removing the shackle--the obstruction to creativity by enforcing "average"--but still using it as a yoke to tame in some of the crazier ideas that we've seen over the years.  For example, one such crazy idea that was a central part of the sector for the longest time was the idea of the Old Ones' fractured proto-dimensional prison that hides a Tomb World in the Anargan Abyss.  This is one of the "shoe-horns" that has been axed, freeing up more creative reasons for the Anargan Abyss, and also the reason that the concepts behind Sargassos will be changing.

So does this mean that the reasons for the Anargan Abyss are open for discussion, or will this be taken care of "internally"?

The Maledictors, while they have not been axed, have now been moved to the sidelines.  There is no Marine Chapter homeworld in the Anargo sector.

Does this mean that the Maledictors have their homeworld in another sector? Or maybe they are fleetbased? Are they still primarily involved in the Anargo Sector?

[Kage2020]

Finding the remarkable in the mundane is part of what this project is about.  Instead of focusing on what makes a shrine world the same as any other shrine world, it’s about finding those little differences that make it unique.

Nice way of putting it.

Ripley’s Believe It or Not is another good site for finding the weird and the wonderful, that can be used to add uniqueness to the worlds of the Sector.   

One of my little regrets about being in St. Augustine over the winter for a conference was that I didn't have the chance to go into the Ripley's Museum.  All the boring history/archaeology stuff had to come first.

  Consistency and realism are something we hope to bring back to the project. 

And by "realism" here we're referring to contextual realism, or a realism that is taken into account when considering the Warhammer 40,000 universe.  Warp drives are not inherent 'realistic,' for example, so spending ages defending the application of the term "realistic approach to warp drives" is not something that we want to get bogged down with this time.

Maybe we need to generate an FAQ.

That's definitely going to be a part of the Explore CMS, but I think that we also have to realise that there is no way that we're going to be able to generate a FAQ that covers everything.

On the other hand, having a new board on the forum that is a place where people can post their ideas and ask the basic questions might not be a bad idea...?  (And, of course, that doesn't mean that you don't maintain a decent sized FAQ on the Explore CMS.)

So does this mean that the reasons for the Anargan Abyss are open for discussion, or will this be taken care of "internally"?

We have a working theory on how and why it is formed, and one that integrates the Pendulum Tide since it is a key part of the narrative.

The Maledictors, while they have not been axed, have now been moved to the sidelines.  There is no Marine Chapter homeworld in the Anargo sector.

Does this mean that the Maledictors have their homeworld in another sector? Or maybe they are fleetbased? Are they still primarily involved in the Anargo Sector?

Well, as I mentioned there is no homeworld for the a Space Marine chapter in Anargo.  With the Maledictors being Fleet-based, while this does open the possibility for this being located in the sector, no, it is not currently located in the sector.  At present the Maledictors have been relegated to a contributing Chapter whose homebase is "elsewhere."

So, they're still a part of the sector in that they are likely contributing forces to the defense of Castellan, but beyond that they are not the "official" Chapter of the Anargo sector, nor is there going to be a replacement Chapter for them.

Kage

[Haarken]

   Personally I'd like to see the inclusion of a warzone, not necessarily within the sector but close enough that the forces of the sector are involved, even with the Ork Empire on the doorstep on the Castellan sub-sector it never felt to me at least that there was any friction between them and little scope for any narrative for wargamers.

   As for the new approach I was wondering if there is going to be a meta-narrative mapped out for the sector in advance or whether the narrative is going to develop as the project progresses and if there is going to be a meta-narrative have there been any decisions made as to it's direction?

[Kage2020]

Personally I'd like to see the inclusion of a warzone, not necessarily within the sector but close enough that the forces of the sector are involved, even with the Ork Empire on the doorstep on the Castellan sub-sector it never felt to me at least that there was any friction between them and little scope for any narrative for wargamers.

Do you have any suggestions?  As it stands, on my behalf a huge war/build up to one in Castellan counts as something pretty significant.

As for the new approach I was wondering if there is going to be a meta-narrative mapped out for the sector in advance or whether the narrative is going to develop as the project progresses and if there is going to be a meta-narrative have there been any decisions made as to it's direction?

At the moment the narrative takes the form more or "plot hooks," and that's pretty much the goal... To create the most interesting sandbox that we can.  Plot hooks will be explored in the subsequent narrative, which members/contributors can invest in.

On the other hand, and as above, it's not going to turn itself inside out trying to wangle in huge Space Marine conflicts, reasons for Engines to be walking death across the entire sector, etc.

Again, though, if you've got an idea of an extra-sector "conflict," then let people know.  This is a time for creative invention as well as reflection.

Kage

[Dragon Lord]

Personally I'd like to see the inclusion of a warzone, not necessarily within the sector but close enough that the forces of the sector are involved, even with the Ork Empire on the doorstep on the Castellan sub-sector it never felt to me at least that there was any friction between them and little scope for any narrative for wargamers.

We have also been considering the possibility of a 'cold war'/trade war that would be on-going, within that there would be plenty of scope for wargamers to consider the situation of the war turning 'hot'.

As for the new approach I was wondering if there is going to be a meta-narrative mapped out for the sector in advance or whether the narrative is going to develop as the project progresses and if there is going to be a meta-narrative have there been any decisions made as to it's direction?

As Kage says we're definitely going for a loose framework of plot hooks as far as any pre-defined narrative goes.  I think Kage's description of what the three of us are doing as trying to construct the box into which the sand can be poured is quite a good one, we want the creative sandbox of the sector to be as open to contributors as possible, while at the same time giving them a few things to grab onto and anchor themselves with to aid bringing the sector together as a cohesive entity.
Reading that sentence I also realise that I seem to have learnt how to speak business-style gobble-di-gook without noticing.  I hope some of what I said was understandable.

[Kage2020]

We have also been considering the possibility of a 'cold war'/trade war that would be on-going, within that there would be plenty of scope for wargamers to consider the situation of the war turning 'hot'.

Indeed.  I think this kind of civil action is one of the underestimated aspects of the 40k universe, a universe that concentrates on the external threats rather than the internecine conflict.  Or, at least, that's how it sometimes feels.  The "merchant war" between Anargo and Meksum has the potential for interesting wargame campaigns/skirmishes.  Of course, with that said it might be harder to wangle Titan- and Fleet-level engagements into that.  I'm just not sure that's a bad thing.

(And, of course, there's nothing stopping people from just using the setting to "blow stuff up on." )

Reading that sentence I also realise that I seem to have learnt how to speak business-style gobble-di-gook without noticing.  I hope some of what I said was understandable.

It was perfectly understandable.  The flaw of many academics is assuming that what they're saying makes sense, so sometimes a bit of "gobble-di-gook" does everyone some good.

Kage

[Studio Colrouphobia]

Cold war is a good idea. Threats are always usable.
What better threat then te movement of the fleet to indicate that if you fudge-up then we can blow you to smitherines.
What better threat then "we will now place a titan on this world and if you move so does it!

And then--- what happens when someone tries to overtake that Titan? Wat happens wen a small fraction of their fleet get the wrong orders and move to the "wrong" place?


It opens up for these situations also.


Anyway... I'll keep silent now (mainly because I need to work )

[Malika]

Again, though, if you've got an idea of an extra-sector "conflict," then let people know.  This is a time for creative invention as well as reflection.

Well I think if we are going to use this approach, the extra sector conflict would have to be with some non-Imperial and preferably xenos faction. In the 40k universe the most numerous xenos are the Orks. Perhaps they could have an empire outside of the sector, maybe not. This could be left vague for the time being since its not that important. What is important is that Ork fleets are attacking the Castallan subsector, first starting with pirate raids here and there, later on these attacks are increasing in the form of planetary invasion. Castallan is on the defensive, with the Archaios subsector lending support by sending in the Imperial Guard/Fleet while the Adeptus Mechanicus start to deploy the Legio Nemesis (will that one still remain?) and other forces.

In the longer run we could have it that the Orks are defeated and the Imperium goes on the counter offensive, entering Ork space. It will be around this time that it will be more clear if the Orks actually had an empire and what not.

Indeed.  I think this kind of civil action is one of the underestimated aspects of the 40k universe, a universe that concentrates on the external threats rather than the internecine conflict.  Or, at least, that's how it sometimes feels.  The "merchant war" between Anargo and Meksum has the potential for interesting wargame campaigns/skirmishes.  Of course, with that said it might be harder to wangle Titan- and Fleet-level engagements into that.  I'm just not sure that's a bad thing.

I'm digging this, but would this would mean that the Imperial Navy (and possibly also Imperial Guard) stay out of this conflict right? This conflict will be fought by private forces, be it small units of mercenaries, assassins or entire private armies. Outside factions could also take advantage of this conflict...

[Kage2020]

Cold war is a good idea. Threats are always usable.

Indeed, that's one of our thoughts.  That and this type of "civil" warfare is not something that generally sees a great deal of attention in the 40k universe, so it might be fun to explore.  Of course, it might take a bit more original wargame/army lists than GW are currently presenting (i.e. PDF army lists?), but definitely do-able in an interesting manner.

Anyway... I'll keep silent now (mainly because I need to work  )

Yes, you do.

Seriously, though, it's going to take a while for the project to regather interest (if it does at all) so the more the merrier.  Myself, Dragon Lord and Destecado realised that if this doesn't happen (the interest that is) then we're going to be doing the creating all by our lonesome...

Well I think if we are going to use this approach, the extra sector conflict would have to be with some non-Imperial and preferably xenos faction. In the 40k universe the most numerous xenos are the Orks.

And, for these purposes, the conflict over at Castellan is more than sufficient.  As far as I'm aware, the zero, or starting, state of the Anargo timeline is with the Pendulum Tide turning once again and a new Waagh coming out of Cruciatine.  (The "wily Ork Warlord" originally derives from this sector, where the Orks have pretty much smashed Imperial control... )

This is, of course, the original concept just turned into "plot hook," so rather than acknowledging the presence--treating it as a locale--you treat it as an event.  While that might have been tacitly understood originally, it was never (to my knowledge) expressly put in there as a means of motivating world description/building.

In the longer run we could have it that the Orks are defeated and the Imperium goes on the counter offensive, entering Ork space. It will be around this time that it will be more clear if the Orks actually had an empire and what not.

We will have to see how that narrative works out.  The original goal of the project was to determine these through wargames, though given how "small" these things tend to be when applied to group/fan projects, I cannot help but consider that this might be a flawed premise.

I'm digging this, but would this would mean that the Imperial Navy (and possibly also Imperial Guard) stay out of this conflict right?

Not necessarily, though perhaps a bit precipitous to be talking about the minutiae at this point.  As we have seen in some of the novels--Eisenhorn and the situation with the Glaw family--it is entirely possible for "civil conflicts" to drag in military units. 

This conflict will be fought by private forces, be it small units of mercenaries, assassins or entire private armies. Outside factions could also take advantage of this conflict...

That would be the general gist, yes, but there's absolutely no reason that this might not ultimately take off in some way.  Consider, for example, the "plot hook/narrative elements" that were discussed previously.  There was the "Rogue Trader/Columbus" approach for finding a navigable route from the Anargan Abyss... Similarly, there is the idea that Anargo might be used as a staging area for a Crusade into Cruciatine... etc.

There is a lot of potential for creating the sandbox, shaping some of the patterns, etc., without being quite as restrictive as it was before.

Kage

[Malika]

And, for these purposes, the conflict over at Castellan is more than sufficient.  As far as I'm aware, the zero, or starting, state of the Anargo timeline is with the Pendulum Tide turning once again and a new Waagh coming out of Cruciatine.  (The "wily Ork Warlord" originally derives from this sector, where the Orks have pretty much smashed Imperial control... )

This is, of course, the original concept just turned into "plot hook," so rather than acknowledging the presence--treating it as a locale--you treat it as an event.  While that might have been tacitly understood originally, it was never (to my knowledge) expressly put in there as a means of motivating world description/building.

This means there will be more a focus on the "present" state of the Anargo Sector? I assume that is still 470.M41? That's great. A thing I noticed in the past was that the project was turned much to inward towards its past, there was a great emphasis on stuff that happened in the past in which the present kind of got forgotten.

We will have to see how that narrative works out.  The original goal of the project was to determine these through wargames, though given how "small" these things tend to be when applied to group/fan projects, I cannot help but consider that this might be a flawed premise.

We've always been kind of lacking in the wargame department, mostly because most of us weren't that much into that aspect of the hobby.

Not necessarily, though perhaps a bit precipitous to be talking about the minutiae at this point.  As we have seen in some of the novels--Eisenhorn and the situation with the Glaw family--it is entirely possible for "civil conflicts" to drag in military units

I need to get my hands on those novels, if only I've got more time to read those, I'm currently in the middle of my Master thesis...

Taken from Phil's blog:

Erm, well the status of the Alpha Legion is also up for grabs, as is the Ultramarine contribution to the history, the presence of the Maledictors, many of the alien races, etc. Again, all of this is currently in the works, but eventually there’s going to be a point where we cannot find information (because it remains on a single hard-drive that isn’t being shared), so we’ll be starting from scratch and removing some of the more hokey concepts.

Wasn't practically all of the info already gathered? I mean I remember sending you a back-up file a while ago with some stuff which was mostly stuff from this forum and the explore site. Stuff from the second forum is all lost if I'm not mistaken, the third forum is seriously damaged and has a lot of corrupted info. Have you been able to reach CELS?

[Kage2020]

This means there will be more a focus on the "present" state of the Anargo Sector? I assume that is still 470.M41? That's great. A thing I noticed in the past was that the project was turned much to inward towards its past, there was a great emphasis on stuff that happened in the past in which the present kind of got forgotten.

Basically, yes.  We've been taking a gander at the history/timeline and wondering just how much of it is relevant to the sector revival.  Beyond that, how much of it do we want to keep.  Information on the Old Ones, the Tomb world, etc., are all being tossed out anyway, so changes are going to be made.  Just how much remains?  That's up for grabs.

This once again ties into the Explore CMS.  Ideally we would want people contributing their world histories and timelines to it, but how we "control" this so that we don't get a Wiki debacle is also a part of the process that needs to be outlined.

We've always been kind of lacking in the wargame department, mostly because most of us weren't that much into that aspect of the hobby.

It's more than that, though.  I believed we had all been somewhat naive that, if the sandbox was interesting enough (big, detailed, etc.), then people would come and work with us to play wargames that we could use to determine the nature of, say, the Castellan defense.  I'm just not sure that is a viable option anymore.  

Hmmn.. Consider Dark Reign as an example.  It's a much bigger site in terms of membership, but for the latest competition where they gave away a copy of the Rogue Trader rulebook there were probably less than a dozen entrants.  I think that we would be looking at much smaller numbers of participants in the "wargame narrative" concept that we had going on for Castellan.  I think identifying this and coming up with new approaches is a vital part of this rebirth of Anargo.

I need to get my hands on those novels, if only I've got more time to read those, I'm currently in the middle of my Master thesis...

As is Dragon Lord.  Remember: it's only a Masters.

Wasn't practically all of the info already gathered? I mean I remember sending you a back-up file a while ago with some stuff which was mostly stuff from this forum and the explore site. Stuff from the second forum is all lost if I'm not mistaken, the third forum is seriously damaged and has a lot of corrupted info. Have you been able to reach CELS?

I haven't tried the latter, but I do have that file.  For some reason I thought that it was artwork.  With that said, the position of the Alpha Legion remains to be debated given the changes to Sargassos.

Edit: Found the file and have sent it on to Dragon Lord and Destecado so that it can help with the re-visioning process.

Kage

[Malika]

Basically, yes.  We've been taking a gander at the history/timeline and wondering just how much of it is relevant to the sector revival.  Beyond that, how much of it do we want to keep.  Information on the Old Ones, the Tomb world, etc., are all being tossed out anyway, so changes are going to be made.  Just how much remains?  That's up for grabs.

Fair enough, I guess we can wait with those discussions once the "revival" is sort of complete and public.

It's more than that, though.  I believed we had all been somewhat naive that, if the sandbox was interesting enough (big, detailed, etc.), then people would come and work with us to play wargames that we could use to determine the nature of, say, the Castellan defense.  I'm just not sure that is a viable option anymore. 

Hmmn.. Consider Dark Reign as an example.  It's a much bigger site in terms of membership, but for the latest competition where they gave away a copy of the Rogue Trader rulebook there were probably less than a dozen entrants.  I think that we would be looking at much smaller numbers of participants in the "wargame narrative" concept that we had going on for Castellan.  I think identifying this and coming up with new approaches is a vital part of this rebirth of Anargo.

People are interested mostly in our background material, the gaming aspect isn't really used that much besides a modelling project here and there. Perhaps we should considered thinking about running campaigns where everybody comes together, kind of similar to Horus Heresy campaign from Tempus Fugitives?

Speaking of Dark Reign, what are you plans for the RPG in the ASP? With this I mean, what rule set do you have in mind? Dark Heresy (and related products such as Rogue Trader) or something completely different? GURPS?

As is Dragon Lord.  Remember: it's only a Masters.

True true, but I'm about to leave to Peru for four months to do my research there. Hmm, maybe I should try to get some of those books, it's nice to have some pulp as a distraction from the "intellectual reading".

I haven't tried the latter, but I do have that file.  For some reason I thought that it was artwork.  With that said, the position of the Alpha Legion remains to be debated given the changes to Sargassos.

Edit: Found the file and have sent it on to Dragon Lord and Destecado so that it can help with the re-visioning process.

Ok good, so you have the back-ups? Are they useful?

[Kage2020]

Fair enough, I guess we can wait with those discussions once the "revival" is sort of complete and public.

Perhaps.  Generally speaking, however, if it sounded a bit crazy and contrived in the former background, then the chances are that it is being ousted in favour of an alternate explanation or new concept.

Perhaps we should considered thinking about running campaigns where everybody comes together, kind of similar to Horus Heresy campaign from Tempus Fugitives?

They look fairly well organised, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Speaking of Dark Reign, what are you plans for the RPG in the ASP? With this I mean, what rule set do you have in mind? Dark Heresy (and related products such as Rogue Trader) or something completely different? GURPS?

Sandboxes mean that you have to put up with and accept that the people who come and play in it might not have the same toys as you.  I personally don't use Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader since I'm not particularly a fan of the game engine nor the way that they present their interpretation of the 40k universe.  Thus I still use GURPS and have a number of supplements just waiting for someone to come up with the graphic design/page layout.

Of course, just quite how the RPG materials are organised is another matter entirely.  For the most part, though, it is peripheral to the project and merely represents the kind of "toys" that I like to play with when dealing with the 40k universe.  The only time that it tends to get used herein is when we need to introduce the kind of consistency that the official publications--even the official 40k RPG publications--have difficulty doing.

Ok good, so you have the back-ups? Are they useful?

We shall see.   (But, yes, thanks...)


Incidentally, one thing that we definitely need: new names for Meksum and Sargassos!

Anyone care to make any suggestions?

Kage

[Malika]

I assume that the bordering sectors and such we've had in the past will be dropped as well for the time being?

Perhaps we could "regurgitate" some of those names for replacing Meksum and Sargassos?
-Aventine
-Constabilis
-Isidore
-Validus
-Revocatus
-Kodan
-Vran
-Samvara
-Capra

[Kage2020]

There's no real reason that they should be dropped for the moment, or none that I can see.  After all, even now they're just flavour so that things coming into or out of Anargo might do so through a named locale.

Kage