[Necron] Necron Necrodermis And Other Thoughts

[Destecado]

I've been giving some thought to the nature of the necrodermis and of the Necron's themselves.   Now, the Necrontyr were fighting a losing war against the Old Ones.   IIRC, they had been pushed back to just their system.  This of course may have changed.  I've been out of 40k for a while, so I may not be up on any redacts that have occurred.  But assuming the fluff is the same, this brought up a question in my mind.  If the war had pushed the Necrontyr back to their own system and had raged for some time, how many Necrontyr were out there to be converted into Necrons?  Necrons seem to be all over the galaxy, but if we are talking a finite number from a single solar system, their numbers should be far fewer than there are.   

This is where I began to think of how the typical Necron warrior is almost like an automaton slaved to the will of a Necron Lord or C'tan.   What if the Necron warriors really are automatons...or at least very sophisticated drones?   the Necrons, which display actual intelligence are the true remnants of the Necrontyr. 


EarthScorpion brought up the idea of the living metal of a large Necron vessel continuing to exist in the heart of a star (see Etheria thread).   I had posited that the necrodermis might be made up of nanites.   My thought is that the physical bodies that we see are not really what a Necron is.  They have become like the C'tan.  They are beings of energy or one that exists as an energy pattern.   The physical body is just something used to store said pattern. 

I read an interesting paper that discussed the potentials of teleportation.   If you look at the beaming process used in Star Trek, it isn't so much sending the particles that make up the body or object that it is sending.   It is instead sending a detailed blueprint of how to reassemble the object, person from the raw materials at the other end.   Since you are not actually transferring the person / object as making a copy at the other end, you have to destroy the original...so there aren't two of the individual.   The "destruction" might also be required in order to build the detailed blueprint for reassembly...like taking a structure apart and rebuilding it "by the numbers" at another site.

The theory include a lot of technical data on quantum entanglement, which I won't go into here, but one problem with the technology, is that you can't really have the open ended beaming process, like you see on Star Trek.  You need to have an assembler at the other end, to put the pieces back together.   This brings me to the idea of rapid prototyping or three dimensional printing.  The three dimensional printers that we currently have are pretty basic compared to what you would need to replicate a human body...although, if you look at the reconstruction of Leeloo in the Fifth Element, you can get a pretty good idea of what they would be like. 

The Necrons may have similar rapid prototypers.  Which may be how they deploy their forces.   Now, if necrontyr or energy beings without a physical form, there might not be an original body to destroy.   I've always found it odd that the Necrons need ships to get somewhere, yet when they are "defeated" they are automatically transported back to a tomb world.   This is something else that made me consider quantum entanglement.  If two quantum particles are entangled, then whatever happens to one is experience by the other, regardless of distance between the particles.  In the case of the Necrons, if the entangled "copy" is destroyed, the one back on the tomb world would still exist.

So, when a Necron steps into one monolith and out of another, is he actually being transported physically?   Is it possible that the information, which is the consciousness of the necrontyr  or the operating system of a drone warrior is instead transmitted and downloaded into a newly assembled body at the other end?  It's all about the amount of energy required...which might also explain why the Necrons "phase out" if they reach a certain number of troops.

Necrontyr in Necron form may be beings of energy, but they do not have the vast amounts of energy of the C'tan.   The Necrodermis can absorb energy and also contain it.   Acting as energy collectors, they might fuel the link required for a Necron Lord to control so many drone warriors.  Reaching that "magic number" is a point where the power required to maintain the link is insufficient to the amount of energy provided by the remaining active cells in the system.   It therefore shuts down.   

I know that some contributors to the site may not be happy with my use of know or theorized science (quantum physics and entanglement) so this idea may be heretical.  Still, I am interested to hear others thoughts on the subject.   


As an aside, the rapid prototyping might be worth checking out for its potential as a precursor to the STC.   Also of interest is a system currently under development, which could make it possible to "print" an entire house...check out the Contour Crafting website. 

[Malika]

Well, I don't know if they were all turned into Necrons when they only had their system left. I assumed that once they got pushed back they "created" the C'tan (weapon) and released those upon the galaxy. Then they reconquered large parts of it and it was after that they they were turned into Necrons.

However, I also believe that Necron tomb worlds are rarer than GW seems to picture them. If it were up to GW every system probably has at least one tomb world or at least some Necron base present.

As for the numbers of Necrons, I remember a (outdated) piece of fluff about the Elyssian Drop Troopers (Armageddon 3 website) in which they boarded some Imperial facility which fell to some Necron entity (C'tan?) who started to create new Necron bodies. What if the C'tan manage to shove other races into those metallic shells as well? They've managed to do this with the Necrontyr and also with humans (Pariahs).

[Herald of the Lost]

I've been giving some thought to the nature of the necrodermis and of the Necron's themselves.   Now, the Necrontyr were fighting a losing war against the Old Ones.   IIRC, they had been pushed back to just their system.  This of course may have changed.  I've been out of 40k for a while, so I may not be up on any redacts that have occurred.  But assuming the fluff is the same, this brought up a question in my mind.  If the war had pushed the Necrontyr back to their own system and had raged for some time, how many Necrontyr were out there to be converted into Necrons?  Necrons seem to be all over the galaxy, but if we are talking a finite number from a single solar system, their numbers should be far fewer than there are.   

Many people have raised the debate about the Necrons replenishing or inflating their ranks through other species.  I personally like your idea better, but I doubt GW has thought it out that much.

This is where I began to think of how the typical Necron warrior is almost like an automaton slaved to the will of a Necron Lord or C'tan.   What if the Necron warriors really are automatons...or at least very sophisticated drones?   the Necrons, which display actual intelligence are the true remnants of the Necrontyr. 


EarthScorpion brought up the idea of the living metal of a large Necron vessel continuing to exist in the heart of a star (see Etheria thread).   I had posited that the necrodermis might be made up of nanites.   My thought is that the physical bodies that we see are not really what a Necron is.  They have become like the C'tan.  They are beings of energy or one that exists as an energy pattern.   The physical body is just something used to store said pattern. 

I could see that, but how does anything without a warp presence or unexplained, supposedly inconceivable might (such as a C'tan) maintain consciousness in an energy state?

I read an interesting paper that discussed the potentials of teleportation.   If you look at the beaming process used in Star Trek, it isn't so much sending the particles that make up the body or object that it is sending.   It is instead sending a detailed blueprint of how to reassemble the object, person from the raw materials at the other end.   Since you are not actually transferring the person / object as making a copy at the other end, you have to destroy the original...so there aren't two of the individual.   The "destruction" might also be required in order to build the detailed blueprint for reassembly...like taking a structure apart and rebuilding it "by the numbers" at another site.

The theory include a lot of technical data on quantum entanglement, which I won't go into here, but one problem with the technology, is that you can't really have the open ended beaming process, like you see on Star Trek.  You need to have an assembler at the other end, to put the pieces back together.   This brings me to the idea of rapid prototyping or three dimensional printing.  The three dimensional printers that we currently have are pretty basic compared to what you would need to replicate a human body...although, if you look at the reconstruction of Leeloo in the Fifth Element, you can get a pretty good idea of what they would be like. 

The Necrons may have similar rapid prototypers.  Which may be how they deploy their forces.   Now, if necrontyr or energy beings without a physical form, there might not be an original body to destroy.   I've always found it odd that the Necrons need ships to get somewhere, yet when they are "defeated" they are automatically transported back to a tomb world.   This is something else that made me consider quantum entanglement.  If two quantum particles are entangled, then whatever happens to one is experience by the other, regardless of distance between the particles.  In the case of the Necrons, if the entangled "copy" is destroyed, the one back on the tomb world would still exist.

So, when a Necron steps into one monolith and out of another, is he actually being transported physically?   Is it possible that the information, which is the consciousness of the necrontyr  or the operating system of a drone warrior is instead transmitted and downloaded into a newly assembled body at the other end?  It's all about the amount of energy required...which might also explain why the Necrons "phase out" if they reach a certain number of troops. 

I could only see this working in a situation involving a node like the monolith.  Otherwise, where would they get the nanites to reconstruct a new body?  The Necrons seem to be able to teleport to anywhere they choose, so unless they had an alternate form of "short term" teleportation that didn't involve destroying the original, I can't see it.

Reminds me of The Prestige though. 

[Destecado]

Changing gears from what has bee discussed above....

I've been working on a possible reboot of the Necrons.  Based on the style of the models and the name of units and the architecture of the tomb worlds, many have considered the Necrons to be the 40k analog of the Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy, which are inspired by the Egyptian culture.   I thinmnk, that we need to step back and possible consider looking to another pyramid building culture, namely those of Mesoamerica.   

I've been looking through several cultures, such as the Aztecs, the Mayans and the Toltecs.  Like the Romans, who borrowed cultural ideas from the Etruscans and Greeks (among others)  the culture of the Aztecs was influenced by the beliefs and traditions of earlier cultures from central Mexico and the Mesoamerican region.  One of the shared beliefs was a creation myth of the five suns.

In the creation myths which were preserved by the Aztec and other Nahua peoples, the central tenet was that there had been four worlds, or "Suns", previous to the present universe. These earlier worlds and their inhabitants had been created, then destroyed by the catastrophic action of leading deity figures. The present world is the fifth sun, and the Aztec saw themselves as "the People of the Sun," whose divine duty is to wage cosmic war in order to provide the sun with his tlaxcaltiliztli ("nourishment"). Without it, the sun would disappear from the heavens. Thus the welfare and the very survival of the universe depends upon the offerings of blood and hearts to the sun.

They waged war to capture prisoners to sacrifice, so that the universe, the "matterium" did not end.   As they moved out through the galaxy, they could have taken this holy duty with them, making war on other species in order to keep the universe "safe".  Of course those on the outside might view this as mass genocide on the part of the Necrotyr.   This might be why the Old Ones made war on them, rather than the Necrontyr going to war with the Old Ones because they were longer lived than the Necrontyr.    Such a belief would only be reinforced by the Necrontyr finding the C'tan, who bear a striking resemblance to their depiction of their gods. 

There is also the enslaver plague, which may have looked to the Necrons as the end of the universe.   They may have gone into hybernation "dug in" as it were to wait for the cycle to come around again, and the new "universe to begin". 

Ironically, feeding souls to the emperor on his golden throne sounds very similar to what the Necrontyr would have been doing long ago. 

[Dragon Lord]

While I do find your ideas interesting I tend to be more inclined to follow the analogy to ancient Egyptian culture, not because of the pyramids or the hieroglyphs but based on what information there is about the old Necrontyr.  Now I could be wrong with this but I believe that the Necrontyr were supposed to have quite short life spans, partly due to the influence of the very active star in their home system.  As a result they became somewhat fixated on death, the afterlife and extending mortal life, much as ancient Egyptian culture similarly had very strong threads related to death and the afterlife.  I could certainly however also see them worshiping a sun god(s) prior to the coming of the C'tan though given the influence of their home system's star over their development, but then similarly in ancient Egypt I believe Amun/Ra, and others were strongly linked with the sun and were for a substantial period the most important gods in the Egyptian pantheon.

[Kage2020]

Given the decreased important of the Necrons to the sector, I'll probably be a bit more brief than I otherwise would.  So with that in mind...

Necrons seem to be all over the galaxy, but if we are talking a finite number from a single solar system, their numbers should be far fewer than there are.

That's a rather interesting point.  I guess we've all been looking at numbers of the "rare" races recently, since I've decreased the population of Tir'asur--the craftworld Eldar colony on the edge of the Anargan Abyss--from 900,000 to more like 9,000, all from a re-reading of Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader (1e rulebook).  To have the numbers of the Necrontyr and, thus, the Necrons reduced gets my vote.

This is where I began to think of how the typical Necron warrior is almost like an automaton slaved to the will of a Necron Lord or C'tan.   What if the Necron warriors really are automatons...or at least very sophisticated drones?   the Necrons, which display actual intelligence are the true remnants of the Necrontyr. 

That sounds eminently more reasonable than the official stance, so as much as it means anything, consider that to be officially adopted into Kage-verse.

I had posited that the necrodermis might be made up of nanites.

To be honest, I thought that was a given in terms of the whole "living metal" thing? 

Again, if it means anything I personally have the Eldar's primary material, wraithbone, being a "nanopolymer" so that also integrates into Kage-verse.

They are beings of energy or one that exists as an energy pattern.   The physical body is just something used to store said pattern.

[
Are not Necrons presumed to be some form of "ghost comp" to use a Gibsonian term?

As an aside, the rapid prototyping might be worth checking out for its potential as a precursor to the STC.

Aye.  STC is very much a combination of hardware and software, at least for me.  A "robofac" to put it into my terms.

Kage