[Eldar] Interstellar travel

[CELS]

Well, I think the Eldar thread in the Anargo sector forum got a bit sidetracked with discussion that applies to Eldar in general, rather than Eldar in the Anargo sector specifically. Namely, Eldar interstellar travel. My intention is to let people discuss this in this thread, but before you join in, please bear in mind the following "warning";

1 - The Eldar, for many people, are a very cool part of the 40k lore and the individual interpretation of fans tends to be based on "image" and "feel" in a far greater degree than with, say, Tyranids and Tau, which are easier to define. In this way, it's similar to Space Marines, where people want them to act a certain way, drawing inspiration from other universes or real life history. And just like in Space Marine discussion, things easily get heated when one of their favourite "armies" / factions in 40k is being misrepresented by other fans.

2 - The Anargo Sector Project has existed for years now, and in this time we've come to rely heavily on the interpretations and ideas of Kage, our resident Eldarphile. While it's certainly possible to moderate our stance based on ideas from new members, we would be lying if we said that we were approaching discussion with a blank canvas. Put directly, new members should be aware that this is not a new project

With that out of the way...

The Webway
There seems to be some disagreement about
- Who constructed the Webway
- How extensive is the Webway

Personally, I have no strong opinion about the first question, but I care more about the last question. I'd prefer it if the Webway was not linked to all corners of the galaxy, and although this is almost exclsively  based on preference in terms of plots and narratives, I also think it would be weird for the Eldar to construct/ expand the Webway in such a way without spreading their Empire to a greater degree. Well, I've already explained the argument elsewhere. And there's also the "thematic identity"-argument, where GW is trying to make each race and their technology as different as possible.

Chaos corrupts everything, except Tyranids because of the Hive Mind, Orks because of their unique psychic energy, Tau because they have very little warp presence, Eldar because of the Path and Necrons... just because. The Imperium has a tremendous advantage with their Navigated warp travel, except that Eldar have the webway, Necrons have FTL drives, Orks can jump on a space hulk and go where they want, Tau can use their warp-skim technology (tm) and Tyranid ships suffer from extreme flatulence propelling them through the stars with unprecedented speed.

It would be nice.... with just a smidge... of conformity. 

Eldar warp travel
Even if we blame GW's mention of all Eldar ships having warp drives on a "brain fart", I'm still tempted to quote Kage's sig "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". If the Tau can "avoid the horrors of the warp" by travelling through the shallows of the warp, surely the Eldar can do the same? That they have the technology is a given. And unless one subscribes to the idea that the Webway is linked with every door, window and closet in the galaxy, there are going to be times when the Eldar simply can't get to their destination through the Webway. (This is a thing I like about the descriptions by GW where the Fall caused great damage to the Webway, leading certain parts to be isolated, etc)

Which leads us to...

Eldar real-space travel
In my opinion, one of the most interesting and unexplored aspect of Eldar intestellar travel. As we know, the Necrons travel between the stars with FTL engines. No warp, no webway, just some extremely advanced engines, shields and inertia stabilisers. Now, there is no instance of Eldar possessing this kind of technology. They might, but it doesn't seem to be the way most of their ships work. However, they could probably have something close to this, since the Eldar are supposed to have a tech-level comparable to that of the Necrons.

In other words, I think it's not far fetched for the Eldar to have a less developed version of the Necron technology. It's not like they haven't had time to study the Necron ships, after all. I think 'conventional' space travel would be a good alternative to using the webway and warp travel, in many cases.

PS: I know this thread is a can of worms, since there are going to be strong opinions about this, but please be gentle when responding

[Malika]

- Who constructed the Webway

Personally I think that the Slann (Old Ones, or as a separate race...up to you) constructed the original parts of the Web Way. Before that they simply always used the Warp to transport their troops/whatever across the galaxy, however later on in their war against the Necrontyr (and the C'tan) malevolent creatures/energies (Chaos) started to manifest into the Warp due to this war. Threatened by this the Slann constructed the Web Way as a safe means of transport. When the Slann/Old Ones left the Eldar inherited this ancient network. They perfected its technology (or perhaps added technology to it because for some reason I always assumed the Slann/Old Ones to be practically a-technological) and expanded it, not per se to every part of the universe as GW likes us to believe sometimes.

- How extensive is the Webway

This all depends on how large the original network created by the Slann was, another thing we need to know is how large the original Eldar Empire was.

Chaos corrupts everything, except Tyranids because of the Hive Mind, Orks because of their unique psychic energy, Tau because they have very little warp presence, Eldar because of the Path and Necrons... just because. The Imperium has a tremendous advantage with their Navigated warp travel, except that Eldar have the webway, Necrons have FTL drives, Orks can jump on a space hulk and go where they want, Tau can use their warp-skim technology (tm) and Tyranid ships suffer from extreme flatulence propelling them through the stars with unprecedented speed.

I remember Khornate Orks in the form of Stormboys, young Orks of which some would eventually turn to Khorne. I remember Nurgle Orks existing too (or maybe that was just some modelling project). The mutations which cause Obliterators to exist also enabled the Iron Warriors to corrupt a Tyranid Hiveship. The Eldar are very vulnerable to Chaos, yes they have their Path which offers only temporary protection, but what about the Crone World Eldar, or Eldar who have voluntarily given up their souls in servitude of Chaos (the character Drakael of the Daemon Wars is such an example)?

In other words, I think it's not far fetched for the Eldar to have a less developed version of the Necron technology. It's not like they haven't had time to study the Necron ships, after all. I think 'conventional' space travel would be a good alternative to using the webway and warp travel, in many cases.

Hmm, for some reason I'm getting flashbacks to MvS' theory of Eldar-Necrontyr technological hybrids. 

[CELS]

I remember Khornate Orks in the form of Stormboys, young Orks of which some would eventually turn to Khorne. I remember Nurgle Orks existing too (or maybe that was just some modelling project). The mutations which cause Obliterators to exist also enabled the Iron Warriors to corrupt a Tyranid Hiveship. The Eldar are very vulnerable to Chaos, yes they have their Path which offers only temporary protection, but what about the Crone World Eldar, or Eldar who have voluntarily given up their souls in servitude of Chaos (the character Drakael of the Daemon Wars is such an example)?

I'll respond to your other comments eventually, but I'd just like to step in and remind you guys that the talk of chaos corruption was just an example. I realise there are exceptions to the exceptions (i.e. tyranids corrupted by chaos), and I'm happy to work with these second grade exceptions to reduce the severity of the original exceptions (i.e. pointing to nurgle orks as proof that orks aren't actually very resistant to chaos to begin with) but overall there is no denying that GW makes every race different in as many ways as possible (especially when it comes to military-related technology). This thread, however, is about Eldar and their methods of interstellar travel, so let's focus on that

Hmm, for some reason I'm getting flashbacks to MvS' theory of Eldar-Necrontyr technological hybrids. 

Elaborate, please

[Malika]

Sorry for going off topic here, I should be giving the right example as being a veteran here. 

Elaborate, please

MvS' once wrote this entire article about his interpretation of the "pre history" of the 40k universe. You can find that here. It's a big read. He basically had a theory that Vaul struck a deal with the C'tan to set up Khaine in order to Necrontyr technology. This technology was combined with Eldar technology. This quote makes it sort of clear:

Meanwhile, using a hybrid of Necron technology, his own Warp-born sorceries and countless Eldar artisans, Vaul creates the ‘Iron Knights’ that would be physical repositories for Eldar souls, in a similar way to how the Necron’s bodies were receptacles for neural-patterns only. Where the Necrons use metal alloys and incredibly advanced nano-technologies, Vaul and his Eldar acolytes ‘grow’ weapons, armour, vessels and buildings from various psycho-reactive crystals and the magic-warped primitive life form first cultivated by the Old Ones that is similar to a kind of psychically-reactive coral, but with properties similar to the very strongest metals – this material becomes known as Wraithbone.

Vaul teaches the Eldar how to use these mighty tools against the ‘Dragon’ – the most technologically minded of the C’tan, and the one that has been most successful exterminating the Eldar. Also, the Dragon is the C’tan who is providing most of the slaves and technology for the Great Work.

This buys Vaul and Morai Heg (separate entities, but also Vortices existing upon the periphery of the greater Vortex of magic, ingenuity and hope that is the proto-Tzeentch) time to create their great Talismans that will be able to utterly destroy the C’tan, again using hybrid Necron technology (evident to this day in the strange pyramid-shaped heart of the Blackstone Fortresses) crossed with the arcane technologies of sorcery.

[Dragon Lord]

With regards to who built the Webway, I generally prefer not to invoke the Slann/Old Ones if at all possible and thus my opinion would be that it was built by the pre-Fall Eldar, and this would then also have some bearing on the extent of the webway.  As you said CELS it would be odd for the Eldar to build or expand the Webway without expanding their empire at the same time and as such I doubt the webway covers the entire galaxy, or at least not evenly, my general opinion would be that the Webway for the most part covers the extent of the old Eldar Empire, with some limited coverage beyond this.  Given the GW description of the Eldar Empire itself being 'patchy' I would expect that the network as a whole would cover the majority of the galaxy (maybe 2/3 as rough estimate), however the distribution of gates into the Webway would be anything but even, in one sector there might only be a single gate, while in another there might be a hundred.

In other words, I think it's not far fetched for the Eldar to have a less developed version of the Necron technology. It's not like they haven't had time to study the Necron ships, after all. I think 'conventional' space travel would be a good alternative to using the webway and warp travel, in many cases.

The Eldar's pre-Fall civilization was on a comparable technological level with the Necrons, after the catastrophe of the Fall they lost a great deal of their former technology.  Doesn't have too many repercusions on the discussions, just something to bear in mind.

[Kelne]

One overlooked option which I'll just throw out there is slower than light travel. It seems to be a very underutilised method of interstellar travel in the 40K galaxy. Spending a few years (or decades) in transit from the nearest webway portal to their destination is certainly an option for the long-lived Eldar, particularly if you factor in time dilation. Eldar ships are built for it, too, deriving motion from sails, rather than those annoyingly finite fuel tanks other races are obliged to use.

This method allows the Eldar to reach anywhere in the galaxy given time, and given the farseers' predilection for setting things up centuries in advance, I can certainly see them launching attacks in such a fashion.

[CELS]

Thanks for posting that, Malika.

Kelne, the option of slower than light travel was not overlooked. Not by me, at any rate. It's just that first of all, it goes without saying that Eldar have it and use it, since all the more primitive spacefaring races do, and second of all, it's a bit boring because it means it would take the Eldar maybe decades to travel a distance that would take an Imperial vessel a few days or weeks. And the problem isn't really the longevity of the Eldar, it's being outmanoeuvred by everyone else. So, the question is; if the Eldar might have faster than light travel, like the Necrons (though probably not as advanced), why not use it?

The expression goes "Bringing the Eldar to battle is like chasing starlight". Makes a lot of sense if the Eldar have FTL travel and can disengage at will. Makes less sense if the Eldar are dependent on solar sails which become increasingly ineffective as they move away from the sun, and probably quite useless while travelling between stars. Then it would be "Bringing the Eldar to battle is like chasing a fat whale, drifting lazily across the ocean" 

[Addinarr]

I prefer to think of the Eldar using very small warp "hops" in emergencies and to traverse short [relatively speaking] distances to and from their webway gates.

Short not because Eldar ships are incapable of making longer jumps, but because they become exponentially more hazardous for the Eldar individuals themselves. I don't believe it to be a technological barrier, but rather a demonic one. Don't forget that Eldar souls are significantly more attractive to the denizens of the Warp than other species, given that they are all psykers of varying types.

One would think, however, that they'd figure out a way to mask their psychometric signatures in the many millenia after the Fall, but I guess that's where GW's annoying ban on technological progress [except for the young Tau apparently] comes and kicks us in the arse.

I don't buy the Necron/Eldar hybrid technology at all. It might be the Eldar-fanboy in me, but I really feel I have to reject it. I view that the two races are totally in conflict with each other, one cemented in reality and abhorrent of the chaotic nature of the Warp and the other irreversibly immersed in tech that is founded on the manipulation of that spiritual realm.

Granted though, the theory sounds like just the thing the Deceiver might put into motion.

[Kage2020]

There seems to be some disagreement about
- Who constructed the Webway
- How extensive is the Webway

The short and curlies of this is (and I will not refrain from bias showing):

• New 'Fluff': The Old Ones did it.  They constructed the Webway, and the Eldar are little more then inept gardeners.
  
• Old 'Fluff:' The Old Ones did it.  The difference here is that the Old Ones are the Old Slann (rather than the Slann; difference there), and the Eldar encountered them rather than being "uplifted" by them.  The Eldar take up the technology of "warp tunnel engineering" and go beyond the principles of the Old Slann and become one of the few races to make the connection between the warp and psykers.
  

Obviously the old 'fluff' needs serious revision in light of the newer material (just as the warp travel times from WD139/140 needs some revision, hence that thread).  It thus becomes a judgement of what you consider to be "cool," "interesting," or whatever description you would care to apply.

What do you do?

Well, that's the question.  For me?  I guess you know the answer to that one.  The Eldar were "gardeners," created by the Old Ones and who, when the Old Ones left the "galactic field," became exposed to the technologies - the technomancy - of the Old Ones.  They took up this technology, the "Warp Gate Network" - call it a Webway if you will, since it is a network, or 'web,' of tunnels - and subsequently improved upon it.  How?  Well, that's another question. 

How do you answer that question?  Well, see the point?

...I'd prefer it if the Webway was not linked to all corners of the galaxy...

I share that preference.  Consider, though, that the Webway has the potential to go to any place, thus the only real way to say where it cannot go, is to show where it can go.  Anyone fancy mapping out the galactic potential of the Webway?

 

I don't.

...I also think it would be weird for the Eldar to construct/ expand the Webway in such a way without spreading their Empire to a greater degree.

Having the potential to expand does not mean that you have to expand.  Erm... Silly example time!  It's like saying that because there is a MacDonalds in the city of Miri, Borneo, that America is going to expand their "empire" there.

Ha!

Seriously, though, it is a silly example, but having a foothold does not necessarily translate to a bridgehead.  With that said, I once again agree that the Eldar Webway doesn't extend everywhere, even if it does have the potential to do so.

Chaos corrupts everything, except... [snip]

In full Kage-verse, you could end the sentence with 'everything.'  That's just out of interest, though.

...and Tyranid ships suffer from extreme flatulence propelling them through the stars with unprecedented speed.

I almost fell of my chair with that one!

And unless one subscribes to the idea that the Webway is linked with every door, window and closet in the galaxy, there are going to be times when the Eldar simply can't get to their destination through the Webway.

But they can then use "shallow warp travel" to get where the Webway doesn't take them, though to do so is a "desperate measure."

In my opinion, one of the most interesting and unexplored aspect of Eldar intestellar travel.

Technically speaking it isn't unexplored.  It is the bread and butter of Craftworld travel.

In other words, I think it's not far fetched for the Eldar to have a less developed version of the Necron technology.

At present, and from our archive boards, I personally work on the principle that the Eldar vessels utilise a form of "reactionless thruster" that is comparably inefficient to the Necron design.  So I think that we're on the same page, but... Well, it's just the idea that the Eldar are travelling at relativistic speeds between systems or in the depths of space.

Hmmn, now that I think about it, I don't have a problem with it, but there are [size=14]huge[/size] implications about this.  40k has never been about "plausible" extrapolations of technologies, so they can dodge away from the arguments with the Necrons, but us...? 

If the Eldar must travel at relativistic speeds between worlds... Well, what are the strategic implications.  The Eldar would never be able to react to an Imperial advancement to a world that is not connected to the Webway.  While it might only take a few years to get "there" by their own standards (not long!) it's going to be centuries relative to the Imperium.

Just mentioning it for consideration...

Personally I think that the Slann (Old Ones, or as a separate race...up to you) constructed the original parts of the Web Way.

Like it or not, the original connection with Warhammer Fantasy Battle does imply some form of cataclysm to have befallen the original "warp gate network."

They perfected its technology (or perhaps added technology to it because for some reason I always assumed the Slann/Old Ones to be practically a-technological)...

If it means anything, I have always viewed the Webway to be constructed on the "backbone" of the warp gate network and, indeed, these are the most stable portions of it.  But, well, there we go.

This all depends on how large the original network created by the Slann was, another thing we need to know is how large the original Eldar Empire was.

This, of course, assumes that the Eldar are incapable of extending the original network. 

With regards to the size of the former Eldar empire, it was the size of the Eye of Terror.  Whether this is the original Empire or not comes down to preference/interpretation.  It is at least the 'heart' of their Empire.

Hmm, for some reason I'm getting flashbacks to MvS' theory of Eldar-Necrontyr technological hybrids. 

And back in the day of Portent, I actually posted a thread suggesting that the "Avatars" could be seen as little more than a "psychic" version of the necrodermis...

It's a big read. He basically had a theory that Vaul struck a deal with the C'tan to set up Khaine in order to Necrontyr technology.

While I hold MvS in the highest esteem, I would prefer that we don't try and "prove" the Eldar mythology as fact.  Despite, that is, that it alludes to the aforementioned thread on Portent.

With regards to who built the Webway, I generally prefer not to invoke the Slann/Old Ones if at all possible and thus my opinion would be that it was built by the pre-Fall Eldar, and this would then also have some bearing on the extent of the webway. 

On my behalf I would agree with this, though offer up the comments above as a means of blending the various edition together.

The Eldar's pre-Fall civilization was on a comparable technological level with the Necrons, after the catastrophe of the Fall they lost a great deal of their former technology.  Doesn't have too many repercusions on the discussions, just something to bear in mind.

[
And a good point.

One overlooked option which I'll just throw out there is slower than light travel. It seems to be a very underutilised method of interstellar travel in the 40K galaxy.

That's because it strategically removes the Eldar from almost all equations, or so it would seem to me.

And the problem isn't really the longevity of the Eldar, it's being outmanoeuvred by everyone else.

Ah, beaten to it.

Short not because Eldar ships are incapable of making longer jumps, but because they become exponentially more hazardous for the Eldar individuals themselves.

Because, of course, greater distances almost require by default diving into the murky depths of the Warp.

Don't forget that Eldar souls are significantly more attractive to the denizens of the Warp than other species, given that they are all psykers of varying types.

And the Eldar haven't developed "sunglasses"?  I'm not saying that their abilities can encompass all things, but I cannot help but think of the ability of Jaq Draco to "hide his psyker light."

With that said, I think that I'm alluding to the Metarune once again.  My bad.

Oh, and you got there before me again, Addinarr.  My bad.

I don't buy the Necron/Eldar hybrid technology at all. It might be the Eldar-fanboy in me, but I really feel I have to reject it.

I'm a complete "fanboi" as well, but rather enjoy the idea that the Eldar have "corrupted" themselves with mundane technology.  In many ways it is akin to the difference between the Technomancers and the Tradition mages of Mage the Ascension.

Make of that what you will.

*dons asbestos suit*

Kage

[Addinarr]

Can we NOT mention Draco in any way when it is related to the Eldar? I still twitch every time it's mentioned.

I'm a complete "fanboi" as well, but rather enjoy the idea that the Eldar have "corrupted" themselves with mundane technology.  In many ways it is akin to the difference between the Technomancers and the Tradition mages of Mage the Ascension.

My inner fanboy bears startling resemblance to an Ork and is calling for the immediate and messy removal of your entrails from your person. Do not worry, I shall restrain him.

[CELS]

I prefer to think of the Eldar using very small warp "hops" in emergencies and to traverse short [relatively speaking] distances to and from their webway gates.

I could definitely live with this. Reminiscent of Warp Spiders, except that they use teleportation, which is apparently different. Or is it? (Fluff on Terminators teleporting suggests that the warp is involved) At any rate, I guess it wouldn't be completely far-fetched to have Eldar ships teleporting as well. Well, at least the smaller ones. Maybe not battleships

One would think, however, that they'd figure out a way to mask their psychometric signatures in the many millenia after the Fall, but I guess that's where GW's annoying ban on technological progress [except for the young Tau apparently] comes and kicks us in the arse.

Absolutely. The problem isn't suggesting that they have this kind of technology, the problem is that it has some rather signiifcant impacts on the Eldar background as a whole, which is not a good thing in my mind.

I don't buy the Necron/Eldar hybrid technology at all. It might be the Eldar-fanboy in me, but I really feel I have to reject it. I view that the two races are totally in conflict with each other, one cemented in reality and abhorrent of the chaotic nature of the Warp and the other irreversibly immersed in tech that is founded on the manipulation of that spiritual realm.

I can definitely see where you're coming from. It's an image thing, I suppose, so I don't think there's a point in me trying to dissuade you.

Well, that's the question.  For me?  I guess you know the answer to that one.  The Eldar were "gardeners," created by the Old Ones and who, when the Old Ones left the "galactic field," became exposed to the technologies - the technomancy - of the Old Ones.  They took up this technology, the "Warp Gate Network" - call it a Webway if you will, since it is a network, or 'web,' of tunnels - and subsequently improved upon it.  How?  Well, that's another question. 

I can definitely see the merit of this approach. The idea that technology and knowledge among sentient creatures in the galaxy has only gone downhill since the disappearance of the Old Ones aeons ago, without any new discoveries by their successors whatsoever, isn't particularly inspiring

I guess my own preferance would be to have the Old Ones discover the warp gate technology and then have the Eldar expand upon it. Whether they improved it significantly, I'm not sure, like you. Did they make it faster? Well, the only thing I can think of would be the introduction of the "smaller tunnels", allowing the Eldar to literally walk through the Webway. It's conceivable that the Old Ones built a Webway that could not be walked through, but had to be travelled in by starships. On the other hand, this seems to go against the nature-theme of the Old Ones.

Another possibility, of course, would be that the Eldar developed the physical technology (i.e. warp gates of wraithbone) that allowed for stable passages in the Webway despite the increasingly turbulent Warp, whereas the Old Ones had the ability to make gates and paths without any physical constructions. Thus, it's both the loss of technology (the huge "gates" used by starships, which don't require any physical gates) and the gain of other technology (physical gates that remain connected even in the event of a warp storm)

Just throwing out ideas here, mind.

Having the potential to expand does not mean that you have to expand.  Erm... Silly example time!  It's like saying that because there is a MacDonalds in the city of Miri, Borneo, that America is going to expand their "empire" there.

Seriously, though, it is a silly example, but having a foothold does not necessarily translate to a bridgehead.  With that said, I once again agree that the Eldar Webway doesn't extend everywhere, even if it does have the potential to do so.

At the risk of taking the analogy too far, having gates in every corner of the galaxy would be the equivalent of McDonalds building restaurants on the south pole, a platform in the middle of the atlantic and the moon

And unless one subscribes to the idea that the Webway is linked with every door, window and closet in the galaxy, there are going to be times when the Eldar simply can't get to their destination through the Webway.

But they can then use "shallow warp travel" to get where the Webway doesn't take them, though to do so is a "desperate measure."

Precisely!

Technically speaking it isn't unexplored.  It is the bread and butter of Craftworld travel.

My bad, the "unexplored" comment was in regards to FTL travel. As far as I know, Craftworlds don't have that.

Can we NOT mention Draco in any way when it is related to the Eldar? I still twitch every time it's mentioned.

I still twitch everytime someone mentions any aspect of that trilogy. Except maybe the tentacle molestation... (Kidding. Honest!)

My inner fanboy bears startling resemblance to an Ork and is calling for the immediate and messy removal of your entrails from your person. Do not worry, I shall restrain him.

Good. Disembowelment is frowned upon

[horizon]

Hi,

maybe you already know this bit of info, or don't need it, but in the following article, doom of the eldar, an
official BFG pdf, they explain on fleets and webways:

http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/doomoftheeldar.pdf

[Kage2020]

Can we NOT mention Draco in any way when it is related to the Eldar? I still twitch every time it's mentioned.

You can mention it in any sentence along with the other Eldar books, every single one of which is a complete travesty.  At least the Watson ones (up to mid-way through Harlequin) have the advantage of being written for someone other than a teenager.

My inner fanboy bears startling resemblance to an Ork and is calling for the immediate and messy removal of your entrails from your person. Do not worry, I shall restrain him.

If I have to restrain my Eldar "fanboi" status for the plausibility of the project, I think that you can do so too...

Absolutely. The problem isn't suggesting that they have this kind of technology, the problem is that it has some rather signiifcant impacts on the Eldar background as a whole, which is not a good thing in my mind.

I think that it is more "'fluff' transparent" than might otherwise be suggested on the initial discussion.  (My god, that was bad English...)

I suppose, so I don't think there's a point in me trying to dissuade you.

This gets too scarily into the idea of Image and the fact that you cannot change it... but there we go.

I guess my own preferance would be to have the Old Ones discover the warp gate technology and then have the Eldar expand upon it. Whether they improved it significantly, I'm not sure, like you.

I would still suggest that the Eldar expand and improve upon it.  In terms of "'fluff' transparency" that does mean too much, but at the same time it doesn't make the Eldar boring, as current GW material tends to do.  Sorry, no.  Does.

Well, the only thing I can think of would be the introduction of the "smaller tunnels", allowing the Eldar to literally walk through the Webway.

I really should send you some of "MAT's RPG Website" concepts.  This is almost exactly what I have previously suggested.

Another possibility, of course, would be that the Eldar developed the physical technology (i.e. warp gates of wraithbone) that allowed for stable passages in the Webway despite the increasingly turbulent Warp, whereas the Old Ones had the ability to make gates and paths without any physical constructions.

I would most fervently avoid this.

maybe you already know this bit of info, or don't need it, but in the following article, doom of the eldar...

I shall take a re-gander...

Kage

[Dragon Lord]

Given the Eldar's prowess in other fields of warp related technology, wraith-cannons, warp spiders, etc, I would find it hard to believe that they didn't have warp drives allowing them to make warp jumps in much the same way as an Imperial vessel, however the webway has such huge advantages over ordinary warp jumps that they would use it if at all possible.

Having re-read the doom of the eldar pdf myself it does more support the idea that the webway was created by the pre-Fall Eldar civilization, but then I'm not actually aware of any official background that mentions the Old Ones, part of my reason for disliking them, that and they make everything less interesting.

If we do settle on having the original 'Warp Gate Network' created by the Old Ones, then I would say that pre-Fall Eldar civilization had the technology to manage and expand this original 'core' creating the Webway that exists today.  I can see that the Old Ones, if they existed, would likely have been even more likely to leave large regions of the galaxy out of their 'Warp Gate Network' as uninteresting.  The Eldar then, whether inheriting the technology or developing it themselves, took this base and expanded and pruned it where necessary to suit the needs of their empire.  Perhaps if it was the Old Ones that created the original concept the old 'Warp Gate Network' was only usable by spacecraft because the tunnels were not as stable as the present webway or did not support an atmosphere (which I presume the present webway must) and the Eldar improved it by stabilising it or by adding atmospheric support mechanisms.

[Addinarr]

It is theorized that a Webway tunnel enables a faster, more predictable means of travel than conventional Warp drives, simply because it does away with all the inefficient yet necessary navigation around all those rifts and currents within the immaterium. Much like, rather, a paved road provides as opposed to having to walk for miles around trees, cliffs, and mountains.

This was before, you understand, the appearance of daemons and the turmoil that disrupted the once placid Warp and turned it into the raging unpredictable sea we usually hear about.

In my recent background fluff, I'm beginning to explore the existence of massive Galactic Gates, which as is implied, are large webway portals that connect galaxies together, which I am currently using to explain the mysterious disappearance of the Old Ones.